My Kingdom for a Dorito. Methinks not…..

rickard

This week I continue to “wing it” and Brain is off to Palm Springs, while we suffer down to 3 degrees fahrenheit. I won’t trade him however as he has both parents who had fallen in the kitchen and had to be rescued by the fire department. Dealing with all that will not be easy.

But the response to my wall of graphs and numbers was very surprising last week. WE had 62 e-mails directly to the topic that were all unusually laudatory and none that yelled “booger” at all. Indeed it would seem that the topic of sizing motors to vehicles IS a popular one particularly among some of our more recent viewers.

All that is a little difficult to come to grips with conceptually. We get about 400 new viewers each day. The dark end of that is that we lose a few each day as well as some move on to other interests. I was following Eric Kriss’s build of a 1962 Mark II Jaguar with intense interest only to learn he has decided NOT to convert it, has fallen in love with it as a gasoline vehicle and intends to rebuild the gasoline engine. Boo hiss.

But the result is we have a strange mix of viewers, some of whom have watched every episode, and some of whom just showed up at the party.

It is generally easier and more fun to drive around in a yellow VW THING with GOPRO cameras and breezily show how much fun electric cars really are. As we drill down into “how to” some of it is really pretty mundane – how to size a battery pack and how to build the boxes to install the batteries. That’s pretty easy to communicate to a fairly wide audience.

But when we get down into the real technical details, things start to come apart. We have actually a large following of John Hardy’s and Brian Couchene’s and Ed Clausens who know much more than I on any particular software or hardware topic. And of course we have some enthusiastic viewers who understand carburetors pretty well but couldn’t put two batteries in a flashlight and get it right before the third try. And everything and everyone in between.

In trying to describe a process without properly using the conventional nomenclature, which tends to be stilted and NOT very transparent to the unwashed, combined with my natural prediliction to almost use the right word to the degree early onset Alzheimers allows, the best I can do is fail artfully. Not a very satisfying process.

And somewhere along the way we have attracted a small cadre of very STRANGE viewers such as Dan Friedrickson and JRP, poised like snakes coiled to strike at any mispoken word which they then combine with just enough knowledge to actually be dangerous while the have no comprehension of what they are saying. Why these guys just don’t go away is beyond me. But I can tell by their comments they don’t miss a SECOND of my presentation each week. Indeed, Dan accosted me this week while I was uploading wanting to know why it wasn’t up yet. It is truly annoying. I can reason that of course these guys are pathetics who are just dying for any little bit of attention, but they are so artless in it that it is just distasteful for me to deal with it, Christmas Eve epiphanies aside.

But that cuts in all directions. It makes me a little self conscious in offering battery testing tips to John Hardy or fabrication pointers to Jeff Southern. That dog just won’t hunt.

In any event, it IS true that a 245/35/21 tire is NOT 35 mm high of course. It has a sidewall 35% of the 245 mm width.

And yes, Tesla does have a marvelous traction control system. It actually won’t stop you from killing yourself or wrecking your car, but it does help – a LOT. How a couple of guys who have never been IN a Tesla can have the hubris to offer sage advice on how it feels to somebody that owns one is part of my daily life. Everyone is an expert, even when working from zero information.

slide-2

slide-5

slide-12

But I did go in deep this week and attempted to extract from normal automotive power and acceleration formulas a trio that you might find useful in attempting to come up with peak power requirements for your car, depending on its weight, shape, and desired performance.

The problem with formulas is rarely about the operation of the formula. But to avoid “garbage in” and consequently “garbage out” we have to talk a great deal about the inputs and how you calculate or otherwise obtain THOSE. And we must keep in mind Einsteins admonition to “make all things as simple as possible – and no simpler.”

I did attempt to explain WHY each element was included, and how you might calculate it or some cases like Coefficient of Drag, where you might go find it.

spreadsheet

I’m rather pleased with how it came off actually but I did promise a spreadsheet in the blog that you could download and simply enter the values. Hereinwith presented. Click the image above and an EXCEL spreadsheet should show up in your downloads area.

Yes, it is true that I do so love to whine. But the past couple of weeks have been kind to me in that regard, providing plenty of material to work with. With Brian off and gone I’m having to learn a lot of EVTV processes I’ve been shielded from, like how to process a credit card, how to print a shipping label, and where all that stuff actually IS. I find since I last did this UPS has actually brought in a computer for our use with their software in it. Of course it had to be updated with the 2015 rates immediately and the software they had provided to do that apparently fails in all cases. But the problem was widely known and the solution was on their web site as it turns out.

Each and every member of my staff has apparently decided we are on flex time, each developing their own individualized holiday schedule and awarding themselves days off, in the case of our payroll clerk including a full week off with pay.

The usual year end flurry of bills has of course been annoying.And I have quite a bit of software and hardware development kind of “hang fire” at the moment. I tried to deliver two chargers and a DC-DC converter to a guy doing a fabulous build of a 1962 Studebaker pickup truck. Haste being the better part of waste, I managed to blow ALL THREE DEVICES up complete with roiling clouds of smoke and fire while demonstrating how very well they worked.

But the real hangup is I have been working on a SEKERT PROJEK that has occupied some time actually. Back to my roots as print publisher. This is entirely crazy as it will be the most expensive print job I’ve ever done because it is currently looking like 325 pages. But I am getting a little excited about it. It is the 2015 EVTV Custom Electric Vehicle Components Catalogue. WEll, hopefully 2015. It might be the 2016. We’re still batting around the title page.

The hardest part is actually moving our product offerings off the web and onto the page. This task has grown into basically a “how to build an EV” book with about a dozen chapters on motors and drivetrains, batteries, chargers, DC-DC converters, switches, lights, cabling and connections, and so forth with anywhere from 3 to 12 pages of description of the process, and then 15 to 20 pages of product offerings in each chapter. My current target date for completion is March 2017, which I guess is fine as that is what Tesla lists as the GEN III car and now Chevrolet with the BOLT as well. So it should be ok for us to publish our 2015 catalogue in 2017 too won’t it?

That’s the hard part. The EXCITING part is up front and it pretty much falls out of the registry we’ve been running for the past year. It is the 200 page LISTING of the 100 Most Significant Custom Electric Vehicles 2015. I finished the introduction for that this morning. If you clickie the cover below, a massive PDF will show up in your downloads next to your spreadsheet.
Note that this is 220MB in size and may well take several minutes to download.
Enjoy

Jack Rickard

52 thoughts on “My Kingdom for a Dorito. Methinks not…..”

  1. Great show Jack! Love the spreadsheet and the very detailed explanation on the topic! This should help identify how much real power you need to get the job done for a specific vehicle.

  2. Like the content of the last two weeks Jack, but I have to say I miss the banter, it’s a little dry, we need you to get all worked up about something in the first segment! I’ll keep watching nonetheless. As you mentioned, I’m working through Wifi weirdness in my GEVCU before I can get it talking with my Android app.

    1. Someone else was having difficulties. We are having VERSIONING issues already.

      If you have the SQUARE wireless board, with the RSMP connector, then via the serial port lower case “w” . Wait till it finishes the reset of the board, then cycle power. Note that this version DOES appear as GEVCU but it is an ad hoc network, not precisely an AP.

      The new version has a small rectangular board with uFL connector. Via serial port enter CAPITAL W and after it advises its done, power cycle.
      Again, it should appear as GEVCU SSID but this time it is a true AP.

      My laptops show ad hocs as well as APs. Your mileage may vary. In either case, it does serve DHCP.

      Jack

      1. Thanks for the Wifi board info Jack. I’ve got the sqaure-ish board with reverse SMA connector. Sadly stock Android doesn’t like to talk to ad hoc networks. I’ll shop around for the new board and antenna. I’ll take this over to the GEVCU forum.

      1. Don’t say blend to loud around Jack! We will get back into the days of him drinking and ranting about all things electric that bother him. Comes to think of it…..I really miss those days!

        All the best,
        Aaron Lephart

  3. Brilliant! I love the catalogue, not only because I’m in there, twice…
    I miss Brian too, because I’ve grown fond of him over the years, he is really an unprecedented side-kick, but you’re fine on your own Jack. Keep up the good work, please.
    Oh, and tell us more on the BMS and JLD!
    Would be great for my next build, a Siemens-DMOC ’69 Citroën DS.

  4. Hey Jack, I have plugged the real figures from the eMinor into your chart. It returns 38 kilowatts. I am running an AC-50 (37 kilowatts). Nice modeling.

  5. Rick Beeb’s segment this week was very well done and most interesting. I use the DS18B20 temperature sensor in a couple of my rigs and really like it. He makes an excellent point about the difficulty of using large numbers of these because of the need to keep track of the sensor IDs.

    Rick is using the same principle I am for battery heating (heat as required from the AC supply when plugged in, as charge is more temperature sensitive than discharge if the spec sheets are to be believed). However I use a board with a thermostatically controlled relay rather than an Arduino based solution

  6. I love the nonsense exposed by some of your commenters and your replies to them, But let us get back to the topic. This whole forum is about about converting existing interesting internal combustion vehicles into battery electric vehicles. Let your imagination run wild while you view Jay Leno’s Garage
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjOfJTloxfM&spfreload=1.
    If you had enough money like Jay, what would you build to make it
    better by making it a BEV?
    Mark Yormark

    1. Wishful thinking here, but wouldn’t it be great to have Jay Leno and his crew do an episode at the EVTV shop? Lots of interesting iron to show and Jay has been open minded and rather complimentary about EV’s in the past. As long as we’re dreaming here, how about having him as keynote speaker at EVCCON some year and get coverage for all the great builds and fun we have.

          1. I cannot explain why steam comes into my mind. Steamers and electric cars have a lot in common. When the car without horses was invented it was either electric or steam. Steam was where gas is today – sunset.

            Both electric and steam do start with high torque at zero speed. Gas was simply far too unreliable to be useful and it still is.

            Zero speed sounds like relativity. Maybe that is why we dont show the normal aging with loosing hairs and brain cells. Gas and poisoning – that is why they dont get very old but look old very early?

            Steam horn or electric bell. That is what I wanted to add to our i-MiEV. Jay has them both and seeing his steamer almost explode when firing up … and those marvels of lamps at the side of the Baker …

            Well, the steamer explodes once when firing up. A gasser has thousands of explosions before even moving. DC motors only explode when hitting the sonic barrier – ion balls and tesla coils …

            Cheers
            Peter and Karin

  7. If found a couple of errors.

    In the spreadsheet the calculation for Watts needed to overcome Air Resistance seems to be missing p or air density (1.2 kg/m3), so the end result in watts is a little of. The formula used for the Acceleration is also a little different from the cited formula, but thanks to wonders of mathematics the end results seem to be the same.

    In the video, when you calculated the Watts needed for Acceleration, you used 1972 kg as the mass of the Tesla Model S, whereas elsewhere you used 2107 kg, so the results are off a little (168 kW vs 180 kW). Also the total peak power required for the Model S performance then becomes 192 kW (instead of the 181 kW in the video).

      1. Good catch Jarkko. Yes, I left air density out of the air resistance calculation entirely. Which is odd since that is what it’s about. I have fixed the Excel spreadsheet and indeed added a little bit so that you can enter temperature i nFarenheit and pressure in Barometric inches of Hg. It will do a rough calc of air density from that. Rather ignoring humidity I’m afraid but anyway close enough for government work. You can see a signficant change in kiloWatts at higher speeds from even a relatively small change in temperature.

        1. That is interesting. So a part of the dimished range in the cold is also down to higher air density. Seems like it can be as much as 10% if you go from 80 to 0 ˚F. I added a row into my copy to see how much Rolling and Air Resistance are combined to easily get an idea how much the vehicle would consume at a set speed.

      1. Beancounters or is it beanscounters?

        Added some beans myself when charging. I do have a resistance north of the powersocket that gets bigger with more current and smaller with less current. Looks like temperature dependent. Fuses?

        Video with nice numbers but without audio promissed.

        Cheers
        Peter and Karin

  8. Jack, thank you. My college tuition was wasted; you’ve performed more illumination than the professors ever did. BTW, this was the first episode that I could sit all the way through… Due to your extensive service to the cause, I hereby grant you a 10% price premium compared to other vendors for identical items. But $9k for an Influenza pack? Oh… there is no other vendor.

  9. Thank you for creating this book. I am very impressed at some of the builds, and should have my build to add to the 2016 model year in a few months (I’m getting close). I never realized there were so many well done conversions out there.

    The book does a great job of explaining each part so far, but I would like to see a real complete list of parts in a basic conversion that the experts (Jack & Brian) would recommend. While it might be different for different type of cars (economy, mid-size, and sports car), I think it would be good to offer an entire kit that will all work together nicely. Although it is tricky based on if they have A/C, manual or direct drive, power steering or manual, etc. It is a challenge that Dell solved in the computing business back in the 90’s by letting you customize the computer you bought. And then go through step by step, the process to convert it like you have on the EVTV show. (That would be much better then the “How to Convert An Electric Car” book I have)

    I would also suggest you talk about fuses and safety disconnects. What size is appropriate, where to place them, how many are necessary, and the graphs that show how much amperage can go through a fuse before it blows. You also might want to ask the community about mistakes they learned from and wouldn’t want to make again during their conversion process to add into the back.

    The picture on the cover does represent the crazy ideas that we have, but converting a vehicle that needs to be restored is my #1 mistake I made. Restoring a vehicle is hard work and is why my conversion has taken 3 years. 2.5 years was spent fixing it back up and painting over all the rust and dents, along with fixing up the interior for a year. I wish I would have spent a little more money on a vehicle in better shape and been able to just focus on removing ICE components and installing EV components.

    There are also plenty of gorgeous vehicles throughout the book that would get people who judge a book by it’s cover to look at what else is inside. 🙂

  10. Jack Somerville

    Jack: Both the tech talk and the blarney are welcome. Your show is a gift to many levels of cognitive complexity so both needed.
    While we are in neuroscience 101 its worth remembering that the least complex instruction (tasking) is following a checklist. Hence the popularity of cookbooks (if you want to know why the butter goes into the flour before the egg whites you need to be up a couple of levels studying organic chemistry) as well as flying and surgical checklists (for safety’s sake). So if we want the greatest electric good for the greatest number and to cross the chasm quicker we need to provide an electric Betty Crocker for the masses. Or someone does and since generousity is at a premuim thats probably you. You will no doubt continue guided tours to the sex life of electrons for the few boffins interested (your comfort level too I would guess) but please continue to spread the wealth to we of the great unwashed. Thanks Jack (& Brian) have a great New Year. Cheers, Jack Somerville

    1. Jack (Somerville),

      you name it, a cookbook. Back in my early hamradio days I could build only what was in a cookbook. I was experimenting (no math) a lot but I could build nothing big, nothing of my own – until I took my heart and a little math I learned for my exam.

      Since about half a year I began building a remote dashboard for our i-MiEV because a 19 Inch Tesla Display wont fit inside with Karin and my living in the car. Android or Linux did not take a second to decide the final selection of Gentoo Linux was running in my brain for a few month but for the dashboard there was no option but to make it all my own – Gentoo.

      There are cookbooks for Gentoo – but each new step I had to drop some of them until I was all on my own. Google would not help much either. Some instruments connected, a camera connected via wlan and the idea come in my mind – why not make a video with the dashboard. That is what I am doing for almost a month now.

      Most of the parts – hardware and software are together but the coordination with my brain – and not yet another u-tube clip there are lots of them. So I am fond of what Jack and team are doing and I still dont understand how they can do it every friday even with saturday for editing and sunday putting it into the cloud. I am sure they dont follow a cookbook but they could write some.

      Cheers
      Peter and Karin

      1. It’s not that I don’t appreciate the details and the extra information, I do. It is necessary to understand why things work or are done a certain way. There are also a lot of little details like where to put maintenance switches, fuses, shunts, gauges, and other parts in relation to each other when you are deciding where everything goes back into the vehicle at.

        However, I also would like an outline or checklist to go through when looking at what needs to be installed and in which order to convert a vehicle. Something like a project management Gnatt chart would be nice. I will be coming up with a checklist to check that everything is working like it should before I take it out of my garage too.

    2. If you’ll raise your eyes but an inch or two, I couldn’t help but post our 2015 Catalogue of Custom Electric Vehicle Components. Now I know that brings to mind a “catalog” of “components”. But I rather intend it to be something quite else entirely.

      First, there is a section of 100 cars featuring 100 builders and 100 stories and 100 lists of components. Each week, we usually talk about an electric vehicle “build”. We typically have a couple going on at any one time but there are usually three or five we are following, sometimes closely and sometimes loosely. In any event, in a two hour show, we often show two or sometimes three. And we present them as unusual and exceptional. And to some degree they are. But the general impression is that they are an EXCEPTION and I was shocked to learn that there are those out there they do not believe such exists.

      And it is true, that like cats, they do not gather up very well into pucklike herds. But in pulling 100 out of a hat we give you an inch of basically that this goes on all the time and all over the world. Statistically it is low numbers. Yet ubiquitous. And so this is what I see, but I have not had a way to SHOW it. When you flip through a hundred, a picture starts to emerge very different from flipping through TWO say or maybe THREE.

      The second innovation is I AM kind of curious why the flour before the egg. And so for each component you are going to have to put into an electric vehicle, we do six to ten pages of what that looks like to me, the rules of thumb we use in selecting and sizing them, and some interesting things you might learn about them that are somewhat counterintuitive. This is basically a CHAPTER in a Bette Crocker cookbook. One on Bread. One on Pies.

      Those are backed up by pages of specifications and photos for the actual products we provide at EVTV. Now this doesn’t really work the way you think this works, which is why I’m destined to bankruptcy in this bizarre endeavor. We don’t select these products for profitability. We select the ones we USE and have been SUCCESSFUL for us in actual builds. True, a few are devices we are currently experimenting with and THINK will be successful. But most, we have bolted on and driven away and have confidence you will get a good result from as well. Can you do better, less expensively? Perhaps. But we’ve had to revisit a lot of topics at EVTV over the years. In Darwinian fashion, these are the things that worked for us.

      Do we not know about the other things? I suppose that is possible…….. but picture that it would be a poor waste of time to talk about all the things we’ve tried that did NOT work. That wouldn’t be much fun and we don’t have the space for it. And some things worked, but just weren’t a good value.

      SO I’m kind of playing hooky on the video right now while working feverishly on this uncompleted book that is almost exactly what you propose – the Betty Crocker EV manual. If I bring it off, it promises to bring a new element of clarity into our presentation. The why. The how. And the how many.

      Broadly, it is a way for me to address the questions that are repeated over and over, in kind of a “here look at page 222” fashion. So we can use the video to talk about more interesting future developments, directions and product developments. It hopefully will be a way for the newly introduced to get up to speed quickly, so they can sit back and enjoy the show as well.

      Jack

      1. Jack,

        I respect your ability to edit in and out what is best for this website. However… I have to disagree with the phrase: ” but picture that it would be a poor waste of time to talk about all the things we’ve tried that did NOT work. That wouldn’t be much fun…” .

        I learn so much from my, and others, mistakes that I would love to see these reported on. Please reconsider adding a section of things tried, but didn’t work. It would not only be educational, but also probably interesting.

        1. I’m inclined to agree. Failures tend to be excellent teachers, I actually remarked today in the shop about how learning tends to be expensive. Fails are most definitely interesting. I’m sure all of us have ideas much like the ones rattling around in my head that may o may not work. Sharing the experience of why some of them don’t work would save a lot of time and effort for many of us.

        2. Putting to print the failures may require doubling the page count. Maybe just a section of the webpage could collect all the failures, but really, most of them are in the old videos….

    1. No. No video this week. But we appreciate your checking twice a day. Yes, it seems our body count has doubled this week. So I guess everyone is checking at tleast twice.

      1. Jack, is there anything WE can do to put a show together? Maybe user submission of actual builds (either fully built or near completion).

        I often get more from the videos from problems that may arise, routing a cable or mounting an item, brake modulators, etc. And it nice to see how people do builds. I for one will do things twice. In a hurry and excited I just want to get the build roadworthy and safe, never mind appearance. Then I will go back and do it the RIGHT way and make it clean and tight. I have nothing but time, so it eludes me why I wouldn’t have done it better the FIRST time. I am sure others can relate to going to the auto parts store and buying core return 12v lead acid batterys and manually arcing battery cables together to act as the controller as you drive around the neighborhood. Right? Please tell me I am not the only one!

        Lately I have been spending entirely to much time on a carpet floorboard for the trunk. Fabricating supports with angle aluminum, precision cuts with a drill press, thread tapping the holes in the aluminum, using nylon locknuts with fine threaded bolts. It’s a mater of personal pride I suppose, noone will ever see the effort. There are far to many shoddy EV builds out there. On the other hand I see the quality of builds has improved dramatically as components have improved. Maybe its a psychological thing, people don’t want to waste time on something they fear is not worth the effort. On the other hand the value argument has a long way to go when you try to justify putting 17k into a 3k car.

        I look forward to your next video! I get allot from them. As you build an EV of your own I guess that would fall under “Misery loves company”, not MO Jack.

        Aaron Lephart

        TechVelocity.com

  11. Apropos Voltec EVSE glitch

    John, my Voltec hardly survived one year. I guess the power supply unit died. The interesting thing they did to proximity is – in violation of the specs they connected it to +15 volts to light the torch light in the plug. The switch in the handle lights the torch and signals the electronics to stop charging at the same time. I guess it is done by controlling the pilot.

    My Voltec was very cheap and I mostly was interested in the plug and cables. I want to do bad boy charging our i-MiEV. The light is a good idea for charging at night and watching the switch to stop charging before unplugging is a good idea as well.

    The voltec has a wonderful orange cable. My Panasonic for the i-MiEV looks like a garden hose with the wires pulled through one after the other and all twisted. It has no torch light but it still works. I guess the i-MiEV does not check proximity. Many cars dont. But it still recognises the switch and it did recognise the Voltec switch as well. That is why I guess the signal to stop charging comes from the pilot.

    Cheers
    Peter and Karin

  12. Wow Guys…I’m Facinated and So impressed by what you guys are doing with electric cars. I wish So much that i could afford to convert my 96 altima to electric…but alas i’m a poor college student at the moment trying to finish up an assoc. degree in computer networking so i dont exactly have 15-30 grand to play with. but after watching alot of your video’s and learning alot about how electric cars are built. I have some idea’s on how if i built my car i would build one that could recharge itself and hardly ever have to be plugged in.

  13. Jack and Brian thanks to you and your team for the show, I’m a complete newbie, and mathematically illiterate. So the show, plus the spreadsheet with real explanations was fantastic in my humble opinion. I’ve spent hours going back over your old shows on youtube, it’s been very educational. (Youtube is great because I use an iPad and it can’t read flash). I particularly like the shop segments hands on stuff, Brian is a great presenter, thanks for those segments Brian, just awesome.

    Once I get the confidence and enough knowledge to build my own I will, probably a Mazda MX-5 here in Oz. VW’s are an arm, leg and half a kidney to purchase they seem very popular down under, especially vintage models (the whole VW story in Oz very interesting). So MX-5 is I believe a cheaper option for me, I’ll make an attempt to video the process once I get started.

    The catalogue come EV cook book is a great idea. I’ll be downloading it for sure. Maybe an EVTV How to build your own since you guys are x print publishers, with 6 years of EVTV, Numerous builds and an encyclopaedic knowledge of all things EV, just a thought. Your catalogue might end up just that in any case.

    A section on what doesn’t work would be helpful, rather than us going down an old beaten path that doesn’t go anywhere and costs us time, money and I suspect our sanity. How not to blow up the gear, would be very helpful.

    Thanks again to all the team at EVTV for the great show,keep up the excellent work. Keith

    Ps: Any Aussie EV enthusiasts especially anyone who’s successfully done an MX-5. Send me an email.

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  15. Jack, I came across the web site of your old friend (cough cough) Victor Tikhonov. He’s reverse-engineering the BMS of a scrapped Better Place pack in an early prototype Nissan. No conclusions yet but interesting how he’s got most of the schematic complete, even if only for an academic exercise. There are a bunch of tiny SMT resistors that bleed off excess cell voltage as heat, which we all know is a *great* idea! http://www.metricmind.com/qashqai/main.htm

    1. I was recently reading the JTSB (Japanese NTSB) report on the other 787 incident. They attribute the burning down of the Securaplane facility by an early test pack to a single open circuit.These devices fail hard and the complexity must multiply the risks of failure

  16. Pilot. Engineer. Air density of 1.2 kg/m cubed is close enough for govermemt work but standard day temp is 59 F (15 C) not 75 F.
    Of course my first recollection of 55 F was also wrong and you did make me doubt it enough to go look it up.
    Love the show!

    1. I remember the Arab oil embargo. I wouldn’t tie into any time payment or mortgage based on the temporary sag in crude oil prices. We’ve become ever more aware of the manipulation quotient of energy prices. Once we have enough panels the manipulators have fewer options and paid off under the table co-conspirators. The only way to keep them honest is to limit their allowance. When they have too much money the politicians get addicted to it. Quoting Will rogers: “Politicians can be bought, they just won’t stay bought.”

  17. Thanx for Frog Protection. New word learned.

    How about Coffee Pump – because you need a lot of caffein to transport 200 kW – and for Frog Protection.

    Apropos Frog Protection

    we had a tv series “Raumpatroille” something like space patrol about the time of early startrek were Frogs were Aliens. We used the english Frogs in german.

    Jack, that Coffee Pump will make a lot of hearts beat faster and some hats might go through the roof. Imagine all those solar roofs outperforming the grid and most charge points at the same time. The Frankenplug guys will suffer a heart attack.

    Cheers
    Peter and Karin

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