We failed to produce a show last week. This is partially a function of being under the weather a bit. I’ve had lung crud that has weakened me considerably. We had a bevy of daughters arriving for Thanksgiving celebrations. And Richard and Mike went to Detroit to manage the loading of a large and heavy body of electric vehicle components from the Azure Dynamics liquidation.
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The demise of Azure Dynamics is the latest in a string of tragedies involving dedicated talented people devoted to the cause of bringing electric drive to our central need and desire – mobility. It is a rather encapsulated solution to a number of truly horrendous problems, but oddly difficult to implement. The “automobile” is so centrally entwined with our very daily lives that change comes hard. And whoever tackles the problem always somehow winds up coming in $20,000 too high.
For over a hundred years, the last and final refuge of the electric vehicles has been in local commercial delivery. We just had a visit from AMP Electric Vehicles where they announced they are basically phasing out their passenger vehicle efforts in favor of largish delivery vans.
AZD largely had it right. A small, economical delivery van purpose built by Ford for the market, artfully converted to electric drive, and with a relationship with Ford that would allow support from Ford dealers for the fleet. It was a carefully thought out approach and in many ways artfully executed.
In the end, my sense is they became to OEM like, costs got out of control, they became management heavy dealing with governmental compliance directives and Ford, trying to establish a global footprint, etc. For whatever reason, they rather suddenly ran out of capital.
And at $65,000, the little van again represented an underwhelming value opportunity.
I guess I was a little surprised Ford didn’t step in and either take it over or bail it out. It was technically a Canadian company, which may have made that difficult. And they may have seen the value proposition similarly.
Frankly, I had no interest in this auction. Several viewers alerted me to it, but HGP’s terms and conditions were just abusive, there was little means of telling exactly what you would be bidding on, the logistics were frightful. They wanted insurance and union riggers and no end of things just to move stuff out – at least on paper. It all had to be out about 30 minutes after you bid on it. You could not even tell you had won an item and indeed they were under no obligation to actually SELL it to you after you had won it. I simply passed on it.
But we had a whole other waive of viewers insisting we participate in an almost non-stop series of e-mails. A lot of the stuff was in large lots of 10, 15, 20, or more units. It wasn’t broken down very well. It was a quick and dirty liquidation.
So I caved. Suddenly, I’m on the hook for about $120K I didn’t precisely have laying around looking for a home. EVtv has been expensive enough and oddly lacking in cash flow after three years of pretty serious effort and two conventions. So on top of lumbar pneumonia, I was a little angry with myself for having suckered on this mess and it was a pretty surly several days in the EVtv Motor Verks shop. We’re seriously behind on this Speedster for our friends in Tokyo. I’ve never really finished the environmentals on the Elescalade. And now a ton of cash out the door on who knows what kind of a lark. I was not a happy camper. And when I’m not happy, I am apparently very adroit at sharing with others.
Richard had of course been egging this on. He’s got a very positive attitude. Whatever drugs he’s on I’d like to try just for a day or two.
So I sent him and Mike Pruit to Livonia with instructions to do the best they could.
They returned, and last Monday we received a couple of truckloads of stuff. The news was better than expected.
First, we bid on an incomplete Transit Connect largely because it had a Johnson Controls battery on it and I got the thing for $6500. If it DID have a 28kWh battery on it, I can’t really build one for that. And it might be quite important to see how they actually wired and configured things on the vehicle if we were going to deal with the components.
As it turns out, it was “incomplete” in that they had not done the final diagnostics and title paperwork. The vehicle is actually complete and purportedly runs. I haven’t actually seen it yet but it should be here this week.
Siemens motors are always a conundrum. There was actually a bunch of them available from the Ford Electric Ranger fiasco during the last CAFE standards battle in California. But they had a large helical gear shaft on them that mated to the differential, an open front bearing allowing lubrication from the differential, and of course no differential. As it so happened, no inverter either. I watched these for years on eBay with longing as they gradually all went away at $2000-$2500 each. But too many problems for me.
I fear we may have repeated the offense.
The motors we received were actually miscounted. Instead of 56, we got 65. We didn’t pick up somebody else’s, the lot was just mischaracterized. The motors came on pallets in brand new sealed cardboard boxes. And as best I can tell, they are just excellent motors and ideal for conversions.
We did pick up 56 DMOC645 inverters. But I don’t know they will ever be usable. First, AZD had continued development of this inverter and it truly looks OEM class now – nothing like the DMOC they used to sell with the elevator motors. But along the way, they had shed the CONTROLLER function and just reduced it to a CAN bus controlled inverter – moving all controller functions to a separate multi controller, the Vehicle Control Unit. (VCU).
But wait, it gets worse. Apparently they quit installing even the inverter software in the units because of mixups in software revisions. So they would install the bare inverter on the vehicle, and then install the software later when everything is in the vehicle. As we got them new in box, there is about a 100% chance that they have ZERO software in them at all. I’ve ordered the dealer diagnostic harness and software from AZDtec, but it’s unclear to me that this will solve the problem. I don’t know where to GET this software, or how to flash it into the EEPROM or flash memory of the Inverter if I had a copy in my pocket.
We’re trying to talk to some ex-AZD employees and consultants, but it’s unclear at this point if these will ever be anything but very stylish billet aluminum liquid cooled boat anchors featuring excellent power electronics components.
The Brusa Chargers were what really caught my eye going into the auction. My first EV had a Brusa charger. It was a bit of a challenge to install and configure. But after I’d gone through the process, I rather liked the result. It is endlessly configurable. Very small and light for its power. And obviously OEM class hardware. I actually have them in the Mini Cooper and the Spyder 550 as well now.
We bought 48 of them and they are brand new in box. Unfortunately they come with no cables at all. Fortunately, I think I’ve chased down almost all the piece parts for the cables. You always did have to wire up your own 23 pin Ampseal connector on the Brusas. Now the battery and mains cables as well. But I think I’ve chased down all the pieces down to the NTC thermistors for temperature sensing.
We paid $2900 for our first Brusa. They had gone up in price to almost $4000 for awhile, largely the exchange rate between euros and U.S. dollars. They’re out there now at $2900. We will price them at $1995 and we’ve already moved six of them so I think they will go pretty quickly. They’re isolated so you can gang them together for more power. And we’ve chased down the latest documentation and software.
Aside from the Transit Connect vehicle, the other surprise was the eGearDrive transaxle from Borg Warner. This was introduced a few years ago and has become THE transaxle for electric vehicles. Aptera was using it. Tesla Roadster was using the 03-01. Coda uses it. Obviously the Transit Connect was using it. It is light at just under 60 lbs. This one features an 8.28:1 gear ratio with Park Neutral and Drive using some very efficient helical gears and a splash lubrication system. It can do 200nm continuous and 300nm peak at up to 14000 rpm. And you can read the control lever position over CANbus to interlock other things in the vehicle.
This kind of gets you out of the adapter plate business. The Siemens motor just bolts right to it and the eGearDrive includes a coupler to neatly connect the motor shaft to the transmission shaft. You have to have splined shafts made to go from the eGearDrive to the wheels, but this is so commonly available you’ll have no difficulty doing that locally.
So we have a superb motor I think can do peak accelerations at up to 150kw that is liquid cooled. A gearbox to go with it. A great little charger. And a DOA inverter that poses mostly a problem.
Predictably enough, I had already caught the forum ragpickers complaining about our pricing before we decided on it, much less posted. It is just too precious for words. This attitude has actually strangled the embryonic industry of those trying to develop products for the hobbyist/custom converter crowd from the beginning. And so I have no sympathy for or indeed respect for these bottom feeders. They’re a negative to progress in electric vehicles in every sense and nuance of the word. A plague and a pox on the movement – entirely in it for themselves in the most craven fashion. I watched in Nausea as they literally drove Otmar and Zilla out of the business years ago.
I would like to enable our viewers to build better electric cars more affordably. But I’m very reluctant to kill all sales of other motors and controllers by doing so at prices that make life non-tenable for those trying to serve this market. So I would rather trickle charge these onto the market over a year or two than to dump them in a month. While this puts me a little underwater, I don’t need a quick buck that badly. So it’s kind of an impossible situation.
We’re going to try pricing it thusly:
Seimens 1PV51354WS-14-Z liquid cooled AC induction motor – $2995. That’s the price of a Netgain Warp 11 around here.
Brusa NLG513-U1-O1L 3.3 kW charger – $1995. You can get a more powerful charger for a little more from Manzanita, or a less expensive one from China. This one is configurable, isolated, and OEM quality.
The gearbox and the inverter are a little more difficult.
I have NO idea what the eGearDrive is worth. But there is an opportunity here. If I can sell 16, I can probably sell another 16. In those quantities, we can probably get Borg Warner to sell them to us. We’ll say $2495 each.
Similarly, the Siemens motors. If I can sell 60, we can probably buy another 20 or so and they may talk to us. Actually I’m already talking to them. After these are gone, they’ll probably be more like $8000 or $9000 each. But we will be able to at least GET them and they will be proven useful by then.
I’m going to price the DMOC645 at $2495. No idea. At this point they are unusable.
We’ll do controller and motor for $4995. We’ll do motor and eGearDrive for $4995. We’ll do all three at $6995. Put 100 of our 60Ah CALBS with that for another $8900 and you have most of what you need at $16,000 with 18kWh of battery.
The controller is of course the problem. We need to locate, kill and eat the software for this thing. I have no idea what that entails. We’re talking to anybody that will listen or respond.
That takes us to the Vehicle Control Unit. If we DID have software in the box, we still need a Vehicle Control Unit to interface CANbus torque commands to vehicle inputs such as throttle and brake inputs, interlocks, ignition, etc. It would be nice to also have outputs of battery voltage and current, motor and inverter temperature, rpm, etc both to drive analog gages and in CANbus format for Android displays and so forth.
I’m working this on a couple of different levels. We have contacted the company that actually manufactures the AZD Vehicle Control Unit and asked for a cost to develop a slightly more generalized device that would drive this inverter. If the economics of this make sense, we’ll do that.
One of our viewers, Paul Dove of NASA’s Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville has volunteered to develop one there for us pro bono. Claims they have some talent on hand to do it. I like all that.
My nephew Derek is a superbly talented C++ coder. He’s so good I actually just like to read his code. Very elegant stuff. Succinct and to the point, but clear – not convoluted. He actually groks the zen of object oriented design and makes it look easy. He’s offered to do it as well.
The guys at RechargeCar have actually done an Arduino Mega knockoff with a couple of handy differences. They’ve put some basic protections on the inputs and outputs and put a CAN bus ON the board. Most of the Arduinoites are curiously unaware that their “sketch” thing has C++ underneath and can be fully object oriented. It doesn’t have the STL library, which is a kind of limiting omission, but I’ve actually done some very object oriented stuff on an Arduino complete with the customary syntactic sugar C++ guys are familiar with. It actually works a champ. Arduinos can run some really bad code. But it’s not actually REQUIRED as part of the spec. That’s just what Arduino guys mostly DO.
So I’m thinking to add an ethernet shield and do all configuration via HTML form after the fashion of the EVnetics Soliton1. Make the CANbus interface object oriented where you can drop different CAN message digests into it to drive Rinehart inverters, Tritium inverters, Seimens inverters, SevCon inverters, and hopefully yes, this DMOC645 simply by loading a different message digest. This kind of assumes they all do exactly the same thing. They don’t. But they do mostly the same thing in the same way. We can minimize the pain anyway in moving from one to another.
VCU’s are historically proprietary and dedicated to a specific vehicle. I’m thinking open source and more generalized for any conversion vehicle. Open source hardware and open source software.
If we establish that we can sell AC motors and gearboxes to the satisfaction of Seimens and Borg Warner, and if we pull off this open source VCU, I think this pretty much opens the door to liquid cooled OEM quality AC drivetrains at more attractive prices. It even opens the door to actually making useful the coming cornucopia of OEM drive trains that will be showing up on eBay as these new cars get cycled through the wrecked car junk yard blender of actual use on America’s highways.
Hopefully this knudges the movement toward universal adoption of electric drive an inch or two forward.
But we need help. If you can scout up any information on these components, particularly the DMOC645, you can certainly help us knudge.
In the meantime note that our Netgain and HPEVS offerings are pretty much plug and play. These AZD components are for the technically adroit with a hearty sense of adventure. They just are not yet there for the faint of heart.
84 thoughts on “RAID ON LIVONIA”
I got an interesting offer in my mail yesterday from our local Nissan dealer: Buy a new Armada, Maxima, Titan or Murano at MSRP before Nov. 30, 2012–and get a free two-year Leaf lease (12,000 miles per year).
I don’t want a Titan. I don’t want a Murano. And I don’t want a Leaf. But that is a heady offer and thanks for bringing it to our attention. They must REALLY want to move Leaf’s. The value proposition of FREE is pretty good.
Good news already. I’ve heard from an AZD employee. Sure enough, there is no firmware in the box. BUT it is available from AZDtec and in fact I had already downloaded it and ordered the diagnostic harness and hadn’t realized it. So we will have firmware in the DMOC645.
He’s also offered to gen up a basic VCU we can use as a starting point.
Impressive Jack. If someone offers to buy my Tesla Roadster i will jump into another conversion or kit build.
That Tesla Roadster doesn’t look like it’s slowing you down David. You just need to find the right donor car to capture your fancy. Or a boat…
Jack, you have to get rid of your imbecile co-host. Tell him to shut up and learn from you, instead of interjecting useless dribble every other second. I’m sorry to be negative, be the guy makes the show almost unbearable to watch.
Maybe you should be watching something more intelligent then John. Might I suggest two and a half men. Or maybe MSNBC – Rachel Madow might suit you. Or Lawrence Odonnell.
We’re going to stumble along as best we can with what we’ve got. Richard was a stallion on this trip to Livonia. He’s trying to learn and enthusiastic. And he’s very excited.
I find enthusiasm and apositive attitude much easier to deal with than brilliant negativity.
Jack I continue to be amazed at your generosity and energy in promoting the cause of the electric car even while under the weather. That you can juggle all these balls, produce your show and even answer all your emails is laudable. Being only a behavioral scientist I am not able to offer any technical comment or advice but I thank you and applaud you for what you are doing. I respectfully disagree with the comments critical of Richard. While the expositions of the brilliant Prof Rickard are sometimes incomprehensible to those of us who are not engineers (Jobs’ famous “the rest of us”) his explanations to Richard and Richard’s manful and enthusiatic efforts to understand make things clearer to the masses. On behalf of the hoi polloi thanks for your engaging , educational, entertaining, often eccentric but always positive show. Cheers, Jack
I kind of think Richard DOES bring me back down to earth at times. This has to be comprehensible for the those new to the genre. And I get a little wrapped up in my own head in my excitement. I admit, some of his inquiries bring a smile, but we’ve all been there at one time. So it’s all good.
Ouch. Harshville… Where’s the love John?
Congratulations on your recent purchases. Some my not realize it, but you really did clean up on that deal. I would have given my right arm and half of my right leg for the deal you got on the Transit Connect. But I’ll just have to keep my Leaf. You can not beat the convenience of have your “fuel” delivered straight to your “tank” in your driveway every night while you’re sleeping. And the embarrassing part is it only costs 60 cents a gallon.
The deal on the Transit Connect was almost entirely accidental. I had no idea. Richard had no idea. We were bidding blindly on what I assumed would be a half done half baked mess.
Instead, it was a $65,000 completed vehicle and may well be very useful in determining how to hook various things up. From what I see now, the AZD team did some truly excellent work, and I’m again in despair over the poor outcome they received for their efforts. We’ll try to put those components to good use on great builds across the land. That’s the best way we can honor their efforts. I thought the eTransit Connect a fabulous concept and apparently well executed. That their management and finances didn’t make the trip is a poor thought. But a harsh reminder. A $65,000 solution may not be a solution.
Jack the Siemens A.C. Motor & gearbox are a most excellent snag. If I hadn’t have already leased a Nissan Leaf, I might be jumping on that package. So what kind of battery pack spec and cost of battery pack would it take to have say a 75 or 100 mile range with this motor in say a Ford Ranger or SUV type vehicle? I’m thinking a battery pack cost might be a bit higher than your usual projects, but I don’t know.
Great show! Cool Stuff!
It can be Jim. But it doesnt’ have to be. To maximze power out of the controller and motor, it would be great to be up around 360v. 110 cells would be a nice pack. But the same thing that happens with motors at these higher voltages happens to the cells. You don’t need as large a cell to make such a pack. So 110 of the 60Ah cells will get you a remarkable ways. Still under $10,000 and with a kWh value of around 21kWh. If you are talking about a Ford Ranger at 3000 lbs that’s 70 miles or so. If you take that motor to 350 amps, thats 6C for those cells. With our earlier cells that would be some heavy work, for these new CA cells, not even heavy breathing. They’ll do 10C or 600 amps easily.
So you use more of much smaller cells. If you really need 100 miles, the 100Ah cells would easily do that. So you have more cells, but smaller cells.
Jack a great, great show good to see your feeling better.
you have got me so exited I won’t to go get a loan rather then save everything I can each week and have to wait for parts LOL.( I want it all now)
would you be able to gt some good high quality pictures of the parts inside the controller to see what kind of micro there using, and can you get a wiring diagram wrote up of the VCU on the Transit van so we can see what all kind of inputs the VCU & controller is looking for?
a voltage reading to all the pins & what pins with the van turned on and off? a logic & scope reading would help also, since you have a completed van that should really help things alone. 🙂
thank you .. Louie……..
Interesting and different Show….!!
It seems like you have some great hardware there. If the software can be ironed out, it will be quite the deal of the year…
I have a lot of experience with writing Real Time software in Micro Computers (Usually Motorola’s, PICs, and Intel Processors). I would be happy to help out any way I can. Writing real time control software is a completely different animal than sequential logic commonly used in business software.
I am still plodding along on my EVThing. I am a little embarrassed by the slow progress, but family issues have slowed me down a significant amount. I work on it when I can….
I did make a 4 way brake Tee so that I could mount the pressure transducer at the rear of the car. The stock lines have a 3 way tee at this point anyway, so it was kind of a good place to put the sensor. I am making one for Jack’s Thing. I think he will like the part. It should work with any 10mm VW Bubble type break systems as they almost always have a tee at the rear of the car…
I added some pics on my EVThing.me web site for those interested….
P.S. I like the addition of Richard to the show. He brings in the HotRod perspective. I this this will be important to expanding the EV DYI movement in my opinion….
Embarrassed. Relax and enjoy the process. When you get it done, you’re going to want another one. I find it very enjoyable to work on the things a bit at a time. The first one, you are anxious to see how it works out. After that, the process itself is almost more enjoyable than the car. But I still get a kick out of driving them even for a short distance.
If you are still draggin’ your feet on the Model S finalization you could transfer your deposit to the Model X and sit on your reservation for another year.
I know you mentioned before just what you bought, but having all that goodies laid out on the floor is kind of awe inspiring. Thanks for the EV porn. Hopefully you can get the controller for the drive electronics figured out quickly and make back your investment, and then some, in a timely manner.
Hi Jack !
Have you had time to check the Tritium VCU out.
Its OPEN SOURCE both SOFTWARE and HARDWARE.
Its 200Aussie dollars. I think it would be a good start.
Sorry Forgot the Link …..
I would like to get my hands on some of those Siemens motors, I found out about the auction to late, and didn´t have the opportunity to get some decent biding.
Does any one know here the UK offers went ?
Try Lloyd Ash Garage Brigwater. Tell him about Jack Rickard and EVtv.
He has never heard of the great man.
I think Lloyd has 60ish sets
I have some suggestions for you how to get a siemens motor and controller. I’ve sent a friend request to your Facebook so that we can continue this question there.
Thanks for the link. I’m going to contact them about purchasing one of these to have a look.
Hey, here’s a headline everyone should enjoy.
EV Buyers Tend To Be Smart, Educated, Wealthy White Men http://autos.aol.com/article/ev-buyers-tend-to-be-smart-educated-wealthy-white-men/?icid=maing-grid7|maing8|dl10|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D237864
Love the open source approach. The world has too many companies and even private individuals pretending they know it all, but can’t tell you anything. It’s a nice way for the BMS people to avoid any nasty questions on why we should give them our money, but other than that openness works better.
Just an observation for anyone interested in a Chevy Volt, yesterday as I drove back to Florence, Al. from Irving, Tx coming across Arkansas I was passed by a Chevy Volt. I was running about 75mph at the time so I spend up just a bit and followed him about 75 miles before I had to make a mandatory pit stop(grand kids with us). The Volt seemed to run down the highway at about 80mph just like everything else with no problem keeping up with traffic. Also it should be noted that while it is built on a Chevy Cruse platform I thought it was a better looking car. The lines of the rear of the car just look better to me.
I got a ” nearly completed” Van also, and am enjoying it. it required the axles to be installed, all the fluids and some hoses.
I have an airbag light still on and a traction control warning, becaus e of the steering angle sensor not being programmed.
I also got a crate of AC compressors and EV instrument clusters.
see photos here
Will you be doing any dyno tests on one of your new motors? Maybe see what it can do before it explodes? You could start a ‘motor destruction fund raiser’, ill put a $100 in. Be very interesting to see how long you could run one at 150kw or what peaks it could achieve for short bursts. I’ve got plenty of other ideas on how to spend your money – just ask!
I’d like to, but dyno tests at those power levels are somewhat difficult.
We’re going to be working toward that with a test bench though to try different controller strategies under load.
Jack, have you considered using one of the motors and controller to be the dyno load and recharge some batteries at the same time?
We’re working on a test bench as we speak. I already have a 150kw Siemens Generator. We’ve bought a table and an xyrotary table so we can fit motors easily. We’ll be building an entire test bench for the DMOC645 and Siemens motor. I may add a torque sensor too at some point.
I have to finish Speedster Nippon and get it and the eCobra out the door and out of my life. Worse, the Tokyo guys are threatening to order more cars. Don’t know how we’ll support that at the moment. But a test bench is already underway.
Splendid efforts guys – of such things are tipping points made. Exciting prospect but I agree that it ain’t for everyone. I’m glad I have my AC50 for the Civic conversion (a little jewel from a quality viewpoint) and I’m told that twin 11″ Netgains are hard to beat if you want to climb Pike’s peak in a hurry
Oh absolutely John. I love the HPEVS for light vehicles and yes, a pair of Netgain 11’s is hard to beat for torque. But the EV community has lusted after a 100+ kilowatt AC solution under $10K for years now. Always a bridge too far. Suddenly, we’ve got a room full of them.
Spoke to Borg Warner today, we can get all the eGearDrives fro these motors we want. No problem.
So bit by bit I’m working off the spiders in this can of rainwater. We have two teams working on the VCU for the DMOC645 and I think we have the firmware problem solved too.
I’ll have all the bit parts for Brusa cables this week.
Speaking of Borg Warner’s gearboxes… Is the gear drive you received mounted on the large AC motor (for the AZD bus) available? I immediately thought truck conversion when I saw that puppy.
I have two of the 5138 motors and one 2.5:1 gear box along with 19 of teh Siemens ELFA Duo inverters. These inverters are the size of a small writing desk, but very cool. They take the output of a 3 phase generator, usually diesel powered as the power input and rectify it, then use that DC as a source for two AC inverters and one DC PWM controller. So you can drive TWO of these 5138’s, plus a DC motor simultaneously. It can of course take battery input as well. But it’s designed for large scale hybrids.
I’ve got one inquiry from Switzerland and one from a guy in Napa valley that is the transportation supervisor for a bus company that has 5 of the AZD larger busses and is feeling a little orphaned at the moment.
I don’t see these doing much for our regular car building viewers. But their is clearly some demand for them.
I cannot understand the complaints and negativity you receive about your business and pricing. As a customer, I can say that you provide excellent service, integrity as a vendor, well written documentation, and firsthand experience vetting the items that you offer. As a consumer, anyone is free to choose where they buy their parts. If the detractors are concerned that you are getting rich then I challenge them to start their own business, provide exceptional service, add consumer value, and further the EV movement to validate their complaints with action. And when did earning a good living by providing excellent goods and services go out of style? Keep up the great work, keep having fun, try to keep the doors open, and I will be a repeat customer when my EV project gets a little further along.
Thanks Joey. I don’t get it either. I’ve been rich for a long time and EVs had nothing to do with it. I think it is just an overarching negativity. Some feel superior by shooting down the work of others. Finding a fault makes them superior in some way in their own mind. Others are constantly digging for the last quarter in teh carpet – causing them to miss so many opportunities that they are forever needing quarters.
Rife in the forums, we’ve actually appear to have attracted a pretty sharp group of positive thinkers among our viewers. But occasionally one of tne negative bottom feeders pokes his head in to provide 2 cents worth of his opinion on one thing or another. They usually scurry back to a forum to complain to their likewise negative friends. And they all hold a pity party.
We’re having FUN over here.
No complaints here Jack, I just bought a Brusa from you and I would have paid more. Thanks for making these great components available to us especially from someone we can trust.
I wonder if it a misconception of there is always a winner and a looser in a business deal. So many people do not understand that there is always a win-win in a business deal assuming that no one is threatened with their life if they don’t go through with the deal. If you have a lead pencil that you don’t want to part with and I want it enough to offer you $1,000,000 for it because it is worth that much to me, it doesn’t matter what it is worth to you as long as it is less than $1,000,000 then we are both happy and have a win-win deal. If I don’t like your price, go else where. It is quite simple really.
Interesting the way Jack insults anyone else close or higher to his EV knowledge, like the successful converters on the diy forum.Can’t have little Jack knocked off his perch can we.
No Jack is quite dismissive of those on DIY typing incessantly with NO knowledge – none at all. They take what they read in one thread, retypie it in another, adding a bit of what “only makes sense” to them, and gang up on anyone who interjects any note of reality into this “type myself smart” orgy of group circle jerk myth masturbation. This all sounds innocent and it is not. It does horrible damage to new EV enthusiasts who wander into this mess thinking they’ll find information there. We hear from HUNDREDS of these innocents, usually AFTER they have spent cash money hard come by on the nonsense they have read there. By far the majority of these poeple on DIY have NO conversion experience at all, and 90% of the remainder are driving electrojunk cobbled together by myth and trash they find where they find it. IT gives entirely the wrong impression of electric vehicles and what they can be.
One of my hesistancies in bidding on the AZD thing was I knew it would attract a little band of ragpickers from that milieu. And I see it has… Please return to the cessppool from which you issue…There is nothing here for you.
🙂 If you were the true expert, you would have contributed something unique, like a Tritium or a Zilla, but you’re simply a recycler of others news.
And you are a churlish, negative little troll, which is why I asked you to return to the infested swamp from which you issue.
I could have quite easily done a Tritium or a Zilla. I choose to be a publisher. Rather than get bogged down shilling one product for the rest of my life for cash, I get to play with everything and see everything.
I don’t recall ever making any claim on any of 150 videos to being an “expert” on anything. This is the status YOU seek in trying to type yourself smart in the swamp. I don’t need ANY validation in that area myself at all.
I’m a publisher. Have been for decades and regarded by almost everyone IN publishing as being an outright phenomenon. YOU on hte other hand are a smarmy little TROLL. Now get thee behind me….
and off our blog.
We generally use our real names here. That’s how you can tell we are people instead of smarmy little TROLLS.
…with exception to us old SysOps, who still value anonymity online. 🙂
@Psy Coljest. There is something about a keyboard that brings out extremity of expression: I’m sure you would be more civil in person. I am a Brit with a first degree in Engineering, have published extensive data in LiFePO4 batteries, am in the middle of a build at this very moment and have published a book on EV technology. I tune in to Jack’s show every week because I find that a) he knows what he is talking about b) he shares experience and data rather than urban myth and c) he is the first to confess when he makes a mistake.
We are all on the same side if we want to promote EVs.
Right you are!
Charles Milliken IV also values his anonymity online 😉
In reply to Psy Coljest:
The first two ships I sailed on were DC ships and for 30 years I was Chief Engineer on Internationally sailing passenger ships which have big DC emergency backup systems. These are capable of giving 200-300 kilowatts steady power for up to 45 minutes. I can tell you that Jack does know what he is talking about when he talks about DC power systems and their components.
Psy Coljest…. and your contribution was ………….?
Beware, the crowds are on to you: http://dy.fi/3uv
+1 for open source EV software controlling open source and proven EV hardware. I will be watching with interest…
The price of J1772 30 amp cables are getting even better at Leviton:
If you follow the instructions and enter the promo code the price should be about $107 delivered to your door.
Thanks. I ordered 5 but got the heavy duty 70A version instead and they are already listed in the online store.
There are a couple of horrible people who have messaged on here this week!
Using projectionism as the rule of human psychology we can bet our bottom dollar it’s all eyes on them for being bottom feeders.
When I saw that complete motor motor unit I wondered what would it be like in a sports car. The gearbox being centre mounted or have a shaft arrangement like that mini. The motor lying down and forward meaning it might fit under the car rear seat pan. The cornering dynamics would be incredible.
AZD parts pricing.
What you have set is fair and in my book will encourage some gorgeous builds. Those who have a sour note about your purchase have no rights to complain. They were also free to pull the money together as a prospective buy too! Good on yer Jack.
I wonder if the Rhinehart controller would be cooled effectively if strapped to the motor body? Just a thought because shorter cables are a good thing when it comes to EMC, cost and neatness.
As you may be well aware that the Rinehart Motions Systems drives are water glycol cooled. So it would not matter where you mounted it.
Larry Rinehart says in an e-mail to me “but our inverter is state of the art in heat removal from the devices. They are cool enough for long life, and would be even at 500V.”
Mark, I forgot.
Seen too many devices needing cooling plates of late. Thanks for reminding me.
I cannot comment at the moment, but we are talkign to the company that acquired Rinehart Motion Systems now. I think we’ll have an option to the DMOC645 shortly.
And probably at a much better price than you’ve seen.
Loan me a system, and I’ll write all the embedded code that you’ll ever need…
All the embedded code I’ll ever need? I’m a needy kind of guy Andrew. But let’s talk. firstname.lastname@example.org
Which algorithm would you suggest to program a PFC-5000 for CA-180 batteries? I was thinking 501( 3.50V @ 3 Amp termination). Do you have a better choice?
Keep up the good work and stay strong!
CV cutoff should be .05C. 180x.05=9
And after seeing Jacks fast charging test I even question the value in that. You wouldn’t even gain much by doing the CV charging phase at the amperage that charger can put out.
No problems will occur if it gets knocked off earlier instead of later.
hey Jack & guys,
a while back Jack talked about maybe getting a list of legit EV parts website together so we can know who and not who to buy from.
I found a Elcon 5000 watt charger for ~$500 cheaper then most places, can any of you guys tell me if its a real or reliable site???
thats a big savings if its real, shipping to Florida is only $125 it says, witch would be about the same no matter were you order from.
thank you Louie……………..
I have ordered two chargers from them on two separate occasions and they arrived as promised. Both had some minor shipping damage, but it’s not really the seller’s fault. It took a couple of weeks for the shipment to be sent, but this is mentioned on the product pages as well.
FWIW I bought two chargers and 16 Headway cells from evassemble in two shipments and everything came through quickly, correctly, undamaged and at a good price.
Unfortunately they used Fedex on both occasions shipping to me in the UK. I don’t know what Fedex is like in the US but in my experience in the UK they are the worst of the big players by a substantial margin
Thanks guys that will take a big burden off my mind, it takes me a month or two to save up for the big ticket items and it would really hurt to get it lost in limbo. 😉
Fedex In Portugal is the same, they are masters in “steeling” money from people 🙁
We talked about a need for it. I think it would just be too much to maintain and we wind up arbitrating every lost UPS shipment in the country. My advice – buy from us. But that’s pretty predictable.
I would love nothing more then to order all my stuff from you and plan to, just ran across that deal and the thought of a 5000 watt charger for $1100 kinda made my toes curl. LOL
can’t wait for this weekend show, you the man Jack no matter what anybody says 🙂
I haven’t had problems with either UPS, FedEx or DHL. They all try to rob you by offering customs service, which you can here take care of yourself online instead. DHL is by far the cheapest from U.S. to Finland, but I understand Jack has issues with them and probably isn’t interested in dealing with them. Both UPS and USPS pricing from EVTV shop directly are prohibitively expensive, but the EU warehouse at New Electric may change this. They however lack an online shop.
Yes, we need to kickstart our shop on to the internets.
I have gathered a few first orders and will try to get a shipment organized before the end of the year, with delivery in Jan-Feb 2013 If anyone wants to add on to this, send me an email email@example.com
When we have a bit of stock I will make it a proper webshop.
This is your main, or perhaps even only, competition:
Anne, I was trying to reach you on Facebook but with no avail.
When will your warehouse offer batteries and other stuff?
Hello Michal, sorry you have not been able to get in touch.. Can’t find your message or friend request, maybe you found another Anne Kloppenborg? There seem to be quite a few Ladies with that name in Canada 🙂 But just as likely I just did not see it..
Anyway: I have had several requests and am working on getting a first EVTV shipment together, preferably before the end of the year and deliver the goods to all parties by Jan-Feb of 2013. I would gladly add your order to this bundle, send me a direct Email to firstname.lastname@example.org and I will answer ASAP to work with you and help you get great EV parts.
Itchin’ for a new video Richard and Jack! Lots of new things to play with, plus Nippon.
I am with you there Mike! I told Jack in an e-mail I had popcorn and 7-Up ready!
All the best,
Sorry guys. We had to reshoot part yesterday because of a microphone failure and so I’m running a little behind. It is uploading right this minute, but it’s 10:00 PM here.
We DID get the Transit Connect in yesterday and shot some of that. I think it is a good show.
My father used to love popcorn and 7Up. Comfort food.
Can you please take some high res photos of the OEM assembly of the Motor/Inverter/Transmission/Charger and post them on the forum. The video was interesting to see and some close up photos would be great to give ideas on how to mount all of the equipment.
Per Eklund liked this on Facebook.
Three AZD Transit Connects have turned up in a salvage yard in the UK, less motor & etc. They are priced at £600 each